Tapegate: Clark lying again
Here we go again. If Labour knew nothing about this tape, how come they knew to go big on their John Key and Iraq TV ads last night?
Perhaps Helen Clark does not know Kees Keizer personally. But she, Mike Williams, Heather Simpson and so forth sure as hell know his mates Chris Elder, Clinton Smith, Rob Egan, Sonny Thomas, Neale Jones, Jordan Carter, Chris Hipkins, Matthew Pillott, Grant Robertson and the rest of the Wellington “Drinking Liberally” circle who are behind both The Standard and the secret tapes.
The situation is like this. Let’s say me, David Farrar, Queen Bee, WhaleOil, RoarPrawn and others with some association with the National Party had a mate who was involved in The Libertarianz. Let’s say we got our mate to enter the Labour Party conference and tape their MPs, or even let’s just say we knew about it. Let’s say our mate then leaked parts of the tapes to a TV station to embarrass Helen Clark. Is it really credible that John Key would not have at least heard rumours of this? Would it not be fair enough to say it was in fact a ”National Party dirty tricks campaign”?
This is the big story of the final days of this election. It’s tapegate. In 2005, Labour attacked Don Brash and Stephen Joyce because they knew about the Exclusive Brethren pamphlets and weren’t up front about it. This is the same, but worse, because it involves considerably more dishonesty than anything the EB got up to.
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Tags: Chris Elder, Chris Hipkins, Clinton Smith, David Farrar, Don Brash, Drinking Liberally, Exclsuive Brethren, Grant Robertson, Heather Simpson, Helen Clark, Iraq, Jordan Carter, Kees Keizer, Labour, Liberatianz, Matthew Pillott, Mike Williams, National, Neale Jones, Queen Bee, Roarprawn, Rob Egan, Sonny Thomas, Stephen Joyce, tapegate, The Standard, Whaleoil
November 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
The inevitable backfire of a supremely dopey underhand scheme. Will make for amusing viewing over the next two days.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
My initial response was to say Clark, what a fucking monster. However, I understand policy.net.nz is a grown up blog that insists commenters use grown up language.
I think the Clarkmonster needs to be seriously questioned on this, preferably by Guyon Espiner. Now would be a great time for TVNZ to capitalise on anti-Garner sentiment on the right by revealing the taper and hitting Clark hard. It’s certainly what they’d do if they were a commercial network.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
You make some great points but you underplay EB because you supported National if not this method. Ask the Greens if they think “tapegate”is worse than the EB’s campaign of lies against them aand supported by the Nats.
I strongly believe Clark knew Williams was in Aussie and knew why. Just remember John Key told Paul Henry he will volunteer answers, even to questions he’s not directly asked…
November 5th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Helen was probably in the back seat of her Crown car with her head in papers when all this was being discussed, so it’s no wonder she didn’t notice what was going on.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Tracey there is one difference between the EB and what is happening now. There was nothing untrue on their pamphlets…but I guess to the left the truth is something that must be concealed at all costs.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Sure would like someone to enlighten me about the lies in the EB pamphlets. I missed them completely.
The issue with Don Brash however was that he “pretended” to know nothing about the campaign and when it was found he had met with members of the EB was taken as proof that he was intimately involved in the campaign.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Just watched JK on the TV1 news - showing some genuine anger! Sparks at last tonight in the last debate, I think. Hope he keeps his cool, but makes the point loud and clear. To hell with her claims of a loud and deep voice. Passion please JK.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Honestly. The tape is clearly showing something that was said. I do believe Clark and Labour are not behind the tapes. Who ever’s doing it is not that politically sophisticated. It seems a bit silly to me to keep releasing it in small amounts like this.
I can’t believe that Key is talking about his as Labour muck-raking, when the Nats & ACT deliberately went intensively after Peters as a way to try to smear Clark. And where’s his evidence that Labour is behind it?
I’d be quite happy for any journos to grill Clark on what she knew about the tapes. But also, they should grill Key on some of the mis-information he is propagating about Labour’s record. And about what evidence he has that Labour is behind the tapes. And grill him more to get beyond the sparse details and superficial slogans he uses to portray Nat’s proposed policies in the debates.
Geezz… they give big space to Key talking about the tapes as a Labour smear, and little critique of why Hide and National set their sights on Peters as a target.
Let’s get some balance here. Though it seems to me that right-wingers have been thrown a little bit by not maintaining the usual control they have over media coverage.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Carol - Peters is a hypocrite and a liar. That’s why Key distanced National from him.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Carol, I’m not sure we’re inhabiting the same reality here - last I looked the right didn’t even remotely control the media.
Leaving that alone, it is clear that Helen and co had advance knowledge of the tapes and the content of them - remember the quote from Helen a few days ago when she said there was another one coming and it was “a real cracker”. How would she know this if John Key didn’t - presumably Duncan Garner broadcast it the day he got it. Surely this must mean that Helen knows the people who are releasing it, and in enough time for her to be co-ordinating her attacks. I don’t see what other way you can interpret it.
As for National and ACT smearing Winston - seems to me a smear should be something that is misrepresented and/or untrue. I’m not sure that any of the allegations against Winston turned out to be untrue. You know, Winston “I don’t campaign from helicopters” Peters. I’m afraid that the connection to Helen is her problem, not John Key’s. She had plenty of opportunity to distance herself, and indeed her own ministers have been fired for far, far less. She made a political calculation to keep him on, and she must accept the consequences of that - that she is associated with his actions.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Matthew, I thought this piece reasonable.
However tonight your mate Duncy stepped over the line by hounding the Nats for context to go with the tape he chose to run, without context. Surely it is not the job of those that have been preyed upon to provide the context to these comments?
In fact you could make a much better case for it being Duncy’s job, it is after all personal aspiration that must be his motivation for running with the story (as there is nothing meaningful contained in the ’secret’ tape, but hey ’secret’ sells ad space).
If Duncy wants context he should ask the scumbag who thinks it’s ok to lie and betray.
November 6th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Atom, if your defence to some comment seen as detrimental to you is “it’s out of context” then why wouldn’t you want to provide the context, to not only clear it up but to make “Labour” come across even worse.
Matt and CHFR “lies or misrepresentation” as someone said above. If you see neither in EB anti Green pamphltes, peek again.
The other point being missed by some here is that National was seen as aware of and planning with EB, in however small way, a $1m campaign in favour of national. That aught to have been declared.
Some of you are being very precious accepting Clark as as much a part of Winstons BS while dismissing Brash, Key et al’s part with EB.
I can see BOTH having a connection. The extent is debateable for both, afterall Clark didn’t plan Glenns donatio with NZ First or how they would spend it and Brash et claim they had nthing to do with EB or planning it or condoing. authorising it… and so on
Interesting to see TV1 and TV3 post debate coverage headlines restricted to
who won; and
how many paid phone/text votes they got
Forgive me for thinking the “news” might have focused on something they each said??
November 6th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Sentence deleted for being offensive to 1970’s house wives. Bryan Spondre
What about the CONTENT of the tapes - you would have NO issue with dealing with “leaked” documents, and there is really very little difference.
What are the Nats/ACT really going to do if they get into power? That is what a blog with ‘policy’ as part of it’s name should be focussed on, not your latest theories.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Calm down Matthew!
This replaces the ’sentence deleted for being offensive to 1970’s house wives’. I didn’t realise that this blog was so PC!
November 6th, 2008 at 10:20 am
MikeG: we are very, very PC here… I have an MA in Conflict Resolution.
Bryan Spondre
Blog Producer.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:22 am
I banish you to the land known as “The Standard” Never again darken our door.
Bryan Spondre
Blog Producer
November 6th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Actually Tracey,
I was looking for a specific example of the lies in the EB pamphlets, not politico speak, “full of lies and misrepresentation.”
I think the pamphlets gave the genuine view of those members of the EB on how the Green policies would affect them and their families and businesses, coloured by prejudice no doubt, but genuine non the less.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“the Greens’ problems with the pamphlet are two-fold. First, they tell lies about Green policy by, in some cases, simply making up policies the Greens don’t have. ”
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/17455
It was an ends justifies the means action. I dont believe they cared about the veracity of what they claimed their intent was clear, get votes for National by attempting to discredit the Greens by fair means or foul.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Keizer is mates with most of The Standard people, whom comprise many Ministerial and Parliamentary staffers. Not to mention EMPU staffers.Given the increase of attack ads by Labour the night this was released, its plainly obvious that Labour has known for sometime what he did. Spur of the moment my a**e
Tracey- Zen Tiger thoroughly fisked the Greens defense and proved that 15 of 16 points were true using the Greens own words. I hope he turns up here to do so also
November 6th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Oh well Crab I guess that means the brethren leaving names ooff the pamphlets and the smell of them on the Nats was ok then. Thank God it’s only helen clark that’s evil now. It’s so much easier to keep track of eveyrthing through blue glasses.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
tracey
I’m not entirely blue. There are many Nat MPs who I think are total tossers and should go. Just like a bit of truth thats all.
I would suggest complaining about an Authorisation statement being wrong is a bit rich today considering the breaches labour and others have committed of this nature this time around.
The names of some of those I refer to are in the tags for this thread. And they certainly arent Farrar, Whale or Queen Bee!
November 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
“considering the breaches labour and others have committed of this nature this time around” EXACTLY
crab THAT IS my point, Nat and Lab both do this shit. I dont favour one over the other, I think they both suck for their slithering lack of morals/values and efficacy. Listening to some pro Nats around these parts one can be forgiven for thinking they have alzheimers or think the Nats and their tactics have been pure.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Thanks for the link Tracey, and one of the points raised by the Greens looks to be credible. So one lie or misrepresentation out of 16, what a contrast to the total veracity of the other political participants.
Incidentally those Members of the EB not signing their name to the pamphlets, trying to influence a vote while they are themselves not allowed to vote, not using cellphones or computers plus other cultish behaviour, creepy, wierd, distastful maybe, but I’m not sure it makes them evil.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Jeez Tracey - what colour is the sky on your planet?
November 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Oh shit, this means all our work organising Drinking Liberally in Auckland we were missing the main point of the cult which we mistaknely thought was to get together left of centre people in a pub once in a while and bring along interesting guest speakers to stimulate thinking and discussion! Obviously I must have missed the internal memo that instructed us to find a puppet to do some secret taping of National party MPs saying what they really think!! I can see I’ll have to rectify this immediately, where’s my dictaphone?
/sarcasm